Dogo Argentino - Foro Dogo Argentino

Dogo Argentino => The forum in your language => English (Inglés) => Mensaje iniciado por: LaDogo en 08 de Febrero de 2008, 13:12

Título: Antares
Publicado por: LaDogo en 08 de Febrero de 2008, 13:12
Does anybody here know a lot about Antares Kennel and their dogs?
Thanks.

Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Iván Romero en 08 de Febrero de 2008, 15:13
Hi, as far as I know in Quebec you have Lirio Blanco Kennel, they have some dogs from Antares blood lines.

Regards..
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: LaDogo en 08 de Febrero de 2008, 16:53
Yes, I met with their dogs in person.

From what I saw, most of the dogs from Antares are BIG, esp. males. big head, big jaw with very floppy lip, boxer/mastiff looking eyes, big body size, tall ...

Base on my own personal experience, they are very friendly with human, but can not get along too well with other dogs, esp. the same sex.

Since here are lots of people from Argentina, someone might have experience with this bloodline. Please tell me what you know and what you think.


Also, does anybody know who is breeding true hunting Dogos in Argentina? I am heading to BA and Cordoba to see more Dogos and bring some back probably, it will be very helpful if I can get more info ahead.



Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: delcaciqueblanco en 08 de Febrero de 2008, 17:53
hi
may by baily cut help because he hunt and now alot in that area of tha huntig sperience.

regards
ARRIBA LA RAZA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Iván Romero en 08 de Febrero de 2008, 18:38
In Manitoba is legal to hunt big game with dogs and knife but "only wild boar".
I know someone in Manitoba who use to hunt, he still have some dogos.
I spoke a couple of times with Federico, I have seen his dogos only in pictures, but he told me he likes a little bit bigger than normal.
I have no experience with Antares bloodline.
From what I have seen in Argentina, I like El Mate and La Cocha.
There is also La Vieja Diana, Mandil, Facon Montero, Gran Togo... I'm missing some breeders that I can't remember right now.
All these have very nice working dogs.
Where do you live?
I move to Winnipeg 2-1/2 years ago.

Iván
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 12 de Febrero de 2008, 15:35
hi ladogos.  i think i know u from dogo.org i use to visit that site until some people started acting cool then i stopped going.   i currently have 1 dogo from antares bloodline.  from what i know the owner of antarres is no longer breeding,  once her husband died many years ago i was told that someone in argentina another breeder tricked her into someone signing some sort of contract or im not quite sure what happened and ended up with all her dogs.   if you are coming here be very weary i have been living here for over a year now and i have been ripped off a couple of times already and have learned that the argentine with the ¨vivesa criolla¨will try to swindle you out of anything they can.  im not trying to be mean just realistic,  i am canadian born but to argentine parents so i have quite a good idea of whats going on here,  dont get led by people, if you happen to have some friendships already that is great but still be wise and street smart.
    as for the antares bloodline, yes they tend to be biggermy male weighs about 115lbs 55kilos and is 28 inches so hes abit off the standard.   they are good for open land hunts like the plains of cordoba or la patagonia,  i live in mendoza really close to the mountains and i have tried hunting puma and llama with my dogo with no success,  he gets very tired going uphill and cant really get around the bushes in the mountains which can be quite thick.  jarillas and algarrobe are the biggest problems for him i have had to rescue him several times after getting stuck in bushes.   as for animal aggresiveness yes he is quite aggressive towards other males, females though he doesnt mind.  right now hes sharing a house with 2 pitbull female and 1 fox terrier X jack russell mix.  i had a female dogo which i got from a different breeder but she got stolen from my property afew days ago.  la cocha has working dogs but they charge way too much and some have defects such as incomplete mouths,  discolored eyes, unproportiened heads.  if you want more unbiased inputs you should try to communicate with some of these forum members,  i know at least 2 that have visited la cocha for dogs and were really unimpressed.  they are just famous becuase of the family name but again dont take my word for it you can talk to other people who have seen their dogs and or go see them for yourselve.    I know alot of ¨puesteros¨people who have outposts in the middle of nowhere and they hunt for their food on a weekly basis,  and they never use purebred dogos,  one becuase the dogo eats too much and they cant afford the food, 2 becuase the dogo is much too big and heavy to hunt on horseback over 20mile distances.   they cross the dogos with greyhounds and when greyhounds cant be found they use either pitbulls which is the pampa dog that they call here or they cross it with boxers. i imagine hunting in the states from what i use to read on the daca forum that its mostly done on foot and over smaller distances so dogos do fine.   
   on a different note,  do you know oly?   im sure he can tell you abit more about the dogo situation here.  if theres any info you need or anything u can email me at com i will be in argentina for another 6 to 8 months, hopefully less im getting tired of living here LOL i need to go back to a more structured country, i miss my canada.  god bless our north america!
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Juandemarmol en 12 de Febrero de 2008, 19:24
Hola:

       Alguien podria traducirme lo que estan hablando, ya que conozco a este criadero y me despierta interes saber de que se trata.
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: CazadorCriollo en 12 de Febrero de 2008, 21:24
Hola choto, this story makes me sad amigo. Maybe you can better come to Hungary  :-D :-D we still have to make a BIG BBQ PARTY together  :-D
Speak you soon on messenger..chauuuuuuuuuuu
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: LaDogo en 12 de Febrero de 2008, 23:34
Choto,

Thank you for the reply.
Is there anyway I can talk to you in private? There are something I do not want to talk about it on the public forum.
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: White Ghosts Dogos en 13 de Febrero de 2008, 06:13
I would like to see a photo of you dog please. And here we also have some in our dogos in the lines, like Carancho de Antares, Primera de Antares, Segundo de Antares are some of them.
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 15 de Febrero de 2008, 15:52
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/DSC04510.jpg)


(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/DSC04530.jpg)

(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/DSC03463.jpg)
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 15 de Febrero de 2008, 16:05
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/Picture007-2.jpg)

one of my favorite pics LOL
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Baily en 15 de Febrero de 2008, 22:23
hi ladogos.  i think i know u from dogo.org i use to visit that site until some people started acting cool then i stopped going.   i currently have 1 dogo from antares bloodline.  from what i know the owner of antarres is no longer breeding,  once her husband died many years ago i was told that someone in argentina another breeder tricked her into someone signing some sort of contract or im not quite sure what happened and ended up with all her dogs.   if you are coming here be very weary i have been living here for over a year now and i have been ripped off a couple of times already and have learned that the argentine with the ¨vivesa criolla¨will try to swindle you out of anything they can.  im not trying to be mean just realistic,  i am canadian born but to argentine parents so i have quite a good idea of whats going on here,  dont get led by people, if you happen to have some friendships already that is great but still be wise and street smart.
    as for the antares bloodline, yes they tend to be biggermy male weighs about 115lbs 55kilos and is 28 inches so hes abit off the standard.   they are good for open land hunts like the plains of cordoba or la patagonia,  i live in mendoza really close to the mountains and i have tried hunting puma and llama with my dogo with no success,  he gets very tired going uphill and cant really get around the bushes in the mountains which can be quite thick.  jarillas and algarrobe are the biggest problems for him i have had to rescue him several times after getting stuck in bushes.   as for animal aggresiveness yes he is quite aggressive towards other males, females though he doesnt mind.  right now hes sharing a house with 2 pitbull female and 1 fox terrier X jack russell mix.  i had a female dogo which i got from a different breeder but she got stolen from my property afew days ago.  la cocha has working dogs but they charge way too much and some have defects such as incomplete mouths,  discolored eyes, unproportiened heads.  if you want more unbiased inputs you should try to communicate with some of these forum members,  i know at least 2 that have visited la cocha for dogs and were really unimpressed.  they are just famous becuase of the family name but again dont take my word for it you can talk to other people who have seen their dogs and or go see them for yourselve.    I know alot of ¨puesteros¨people who have outposts in the middle of nowhere and they hunt for their food on a weekly basis,  and they never use purebred dogos,  one becuase the dogo eats too much and they cant afford the food, 2 becuase the dogo is much too big and heavy to hunt on horseback over 20mile distances.   they cross the dogos with greyhounds and when greyhounds cant be found they use either pitbulls which is the pampa dog that they call here or they cross it with boxers. i imagine hunting in the states from what i use to read on the daca forum that its mostly done on foot and over smaller distances so dogos do fine.   
   on a different note,  do you know oly?   im sure he can tell you abit more about the dogo situation here.  if theres any info you need or anything u can email me at com i will be in argentina for another 6 to 8 months, hopefully less im getting tired of living here LOL i need to go back to a more structured country, i miss my canada.  god bless our north america!


Choto do you know any Dogo breeder or any Dogo line that is free of the flaws you mention La Cocha has?
Do you about them, you saw them or you just red it from their website, as the only kennel who states the flaws they have.

You have a dog from Anatres, you should know about they’re problems with CHD and demodex and their dogs looking more like a white Great Dane than a Dogo.

In the whole of Argentina there are really only two serious working kennels, La Cocha and El Mate.
And if you do not agree let any of the other kennels bring their dogs to prove it, like La Cocha and El mate do almost daily.
When you put someone as reference, like you did with Oly, make sure it’s someone with integrity, not someone who lies about the capabilities and accomplishment of his dogs.\
Refer to someone with self respect.


LaDogo my advice to you is, just go look for your self.
If you are looking for a show dog, companion dog you can get that anywhere.
If you lloking with working dog that in a show ring can beat a show dogs and after go into the woods and catch a hog for you.
Than La Cocha and el mate is your best bet.
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Dogo Rustico en 15 de Febrero de 2008, 23:25
Hi , ladogo,  i can tell you about Facon Montero, they have really nice dogos, their dogos are based only on the old standar, they are hunters, they hold the Antonio Nores centenary field title , one dogo that its an amazing hunter its Tenaza Facon Montero. If you want you can see their videos in the webpage or in you tube if you prefer.

If you want a real Dogo , the equation is easy, this dog have to hunt + have to look phisicaly like a Dogo, if that dog hunt but don't look like a tipical Dogo, its not a Argentine Dogo, otherwise if look like a Argentine Dogo but dont hunt you only have a 1/2 Dogo...you know what i mean :wink:

Have luck in your search!
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: LaDogo en 16 de Febrero de 2008, 02:03

In the whole of Argentina there are really only two serious working kennels, La Cocha and El Mate.


I have contacted La Cocha many times, will give them a visit this year.
Can you please tell me how to contact EI Mate? Do they have a website?

Thank you.
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: LaDogo en 16 de Febrero de 2008, 02:06
Hi , ladogo,  i can tell you about Facon Montero, they have really nice dogos, their dogos are based only on the old standar, they are hunters, they hold the Antonio Nores centenary field title , one dogo that its an amazing hunter its Tenaza Facon Montero. If you want you can see their videos in the webpage or in you tube if you prefer.

If you want a real Dogo , the equation is easy, this dog have to hunt + have to look phisicaly like a Dogo, if that dog hunt but don't look like a tipical Dogo, its not a Argentine Dogo, otherwise if look like a Argentine Dogo but dont hunt you only have a 1/2 Dogo...you know what i mean :wink:

Have luck in your search!


Thank you for the advice.
Facon Montero has some good Dogos!
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: LaDogo en 16 de Febrero de 2008, 02:13
Can any of you please recommend more kennels? Kennels with true working Dogo Argentino dogs. I want to visit as many kennels as I can when I am there. 

Also, how is Nueva Córdoba and La Vieja Diana?

Thanks again.
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Iván Romero en 16 de Febrero de 2008, 02:43
My recomendation,
If you go to Argentina, ask the breeders to show you the dogos working with the boar, puma or peccary. a good breeder will be proud to show you the dogos working.
NEVER belive if you don't see.. things like "yes they are good hunters, or they will be good hunters". If someone tell you this and they don't show you their dogos or parents of the pup you want to buy working.. walk away..
nice looking dog, doesn't mean a good dogo or even a champion doesn't mean it.
A good dogo is first a working dog, so will be full of scars.
I prefer El mate and La cocha over all the breeders I saw.

Regards


Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: White Ghosts Dogos en 16 de Febrero de 2008, 06:18
This working kennel El Mate can somebody tell me how to get in contact with them and what bloodlines they have. Since we work with our dogos this is highly intresting.

Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Baily en 16 de Febrero de 2008, 08:56

In the whole of Argentina there are really only two serious working kennels, La Cocha and El Mate.


I have contacted La Cocha many times, will give them a visit this year.
Can you please tell me how to contact EI Mate? Do they have a website?

Thank you.

El Mate is located in La Carlota.
Contact Ulises and he can tell you more about him and even arrange a visit for you.
There is also another breeder close to La Carlota, it's in Canals, his name is Zorro.
I do not remember his kennel name, he has some nice working Dogos too.
His dogs come from both La Cocha and El Mate blood.


Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Iván Romero en 16 de Febrero de 2008, 15:06
you also have El mandil, is located in Buenos Aires i guess, they have dogs only from el mate as far as i know. In Los Cisnes (about 20 km from La Carlota) is also a breeder with dogos from el mate.
here a pedigree from el mate so you can see what bloodlines do they work with.
http://eng.argentino-dogo.ru/dogs/MASQUETA-DEL-MATE.html

web page
www.dogosdelmate.com.ar
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: White Ghosts Dogos en 17 de Febrero de 2008, 08:07
Thanks you Iván that was  very intresting to see a pedigee and also the homepage. :-)
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 18 de Febrero de 2008, 12:23
Hi baily,  i dont think there are any dogos without defects and i guess i should have made that more clear,  the point i was trying to get at is that la cocha isnt "perfection" either.   I have met people in person when the mendoza dogo show who have gone to see their dogs, and while we sat around and drank some beer and ate some food we discussed dogs.   they talked about their favorite dogos, and favorite breeders, and although noone spoke badly about la cocha noone was really either truly satisfied with their dogs.   I have spend alot of time over this past 6 months trying to hunt, although that is nowhere near what kind of experience you have in the field i have learned alot too, like for 1 that the dogo isnt all its cracked up to be(at leat around the andes region).   in the country i have never seen poor regular hunting folk use dogos, and I mean never.  I have seen countless dogo mixes but never purebred.   the only places i have seen purebred dogos have been at the more well off ranches with people who have money, but we all know those people really know fuck all they just like having the fanciest shit all the time  ( also please keep in mind that around here we have very little wild boar, u gotta go about 40km south to start seeing them).  I might not know alot about hunting but if these people who hunt stuff to eat on a regular basis are not using purebred dogos it must be for a reason.  that is why i no longer opt for a purebred dogo to bring into the field with me anymore (dont get me wrong i still love the dogo as a companion and guardian and will always have one, it just wont be my first choice to hunt with where I live at)  they might work great in the plains but any country folk around here or puestero or even a hunting enthusiest will tell you the dogo is just heavy and big for the mountain hunts.  also from what ive been told (ive never hunted yet in the mountains with purebred dogos just dogo crosses so i dont know what kind of range a dogo has)  the dogo cant hunt on long distances hence the dogo X greyhound crosses or the dogo X pitbull.   Around here we got something called "la puna" which is basically high altitude low oxygen making your heart work harder, and la puna really affects the dogs, even the horses.  when we've gone up the andes to hunt we let the horses catch their breath every hour or so cuase the climb is vicious.  Were talking about going up 2-3 km up hill, sometimes we even gotta get off the horses to go up certain areas.   i am planning to to out again end of the month and i will try to get some pics of the areas where we hunt.
all in all i guess i dont even really need a dogo to hunt around here cuase wild boar is so far from us, but still i would hate to get caught with my pants down if you know what i mean,  boars reproduce fast maybe in another 3-5 years we will have them here again.

   Im really glad u enjoy argentina baily honestly im so sick of the politics and government services in this country im just gonna go back to canada i think.  I have had a 15month vacation now so i think its time to get to reality too LOL.  its fine if you wanna live outside the cities and such and its great if you live alone but i have a baby girl and really now.... hospitals and schools here are a joke,  i honestly didnt remember things being this bad when i live here soooooooo many years ago.   i have seen vet offices in canada more sterile then hospitals here ( and we have crazy ass expensive health insurance at one of the "best" hospitals here).    we have bought a house with like half acre of land up near the mountains, and im looking to acquire 600 acres more up in the foot of the mountains to build some cabins for tourists.   also to do hunting stuff,  theres  no wild boar here but PLENTY of puma and guanaco.   Where abouts are u living now? 
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: Baily en 18 de Febrero de 2008, 13:09
Most hunters do not have pure Dogos simple because they cannot afford or acquire one.
I give you an example, at the end of a hunting tournament two young guys won the event, they had mixed breeds and still won.
The price was 1000 pesos and la Cocha donated a Dogo pup to the owner.
You know how much 1000 pesos is in Argentina, the guy took the money like it was nothing and was in tears when he received the puppy.
Why? Just because he lost his best hunting dog over 2 years before, a pure bred Dogo and ever since he was trying but failed to get one.
They cannot afford to maintain a couple of Dogos, let alone get them.

La Cocha is all mountain and rocks, still the Dogos there hunt boar and Puma.
Not just because it is white and someone told you it is a Dogo means you have a Dogo.
If you really think the Dogo cannot hunt there where you live do to his size and do to it no being all that it is cracked up to be, write a mail to Ulises tell him about that and challenge him to show you if it can be done.
The man loves a challenge.
 Are you serious when you telling me that a Dogo x Pit has more endurance than a pure bred Dogo? What are they doing, crossing a 50+ kilo white dog with a 25 kilo pit and make it out run the 50+ kilo white dog?

When I was in Argentina some famous Dogo experts tried to imply that my Pirata that I acquired at la Cocha was as big as a giraffe and that it was not all people said it was, because if it was so I would have brought him with me to show them.
Ignorance my friend is a cheap commodity; anyone can get it in vast amounts.

I will bet anything with anyone to take this challenge.
Step at any breeder you know of, take 10 random Dogos of his stock and put them in a ring, judge them and than put them into the field see what happens.
Than do the same at La Cocha and we will see what the results will be.

I do understand your frustration and worries about health and education in Argentina.
You will never be happy or relaxed thinking likes a Canadian living in Argentina.
Argentineans live in those conditions and many, many are doing great.
I would sacrifice luxury and better hospitals for less stress, better food, quality of life and the knowledge that you’re child life could have a much richer youth by learning to live in harmony is such a rich and beautiful land and scenery.
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 18 de Febrero de 2008, 13:48
yea i understand that thinking like a canadian i will never be happy here and do realize that many many people live here in these conditions and do fine, but u must also look at all the people who can leave that do so.   I have alot of family that lives here and we were just lucky enough to have left thanks to my dad and his hard work.   my grandma still lives here and i have many uncles, aunts, cousins that still live here and do so very humbly.   I have only a handful of family members who are lucky enough to make more then 1500 pesos a month and they do so by owning their busineses, in some cases studying (i have a cousin who is a lawyer) and some by just working hard.   for the most part 75% of my family lives here off about 800-1000 pesos a month which is hardly enough.   My wife and I were lucky to purchase some land and have our house built on it so we paid no rent, and still with all the expenses we still spend about 1500 a month so i know that its really hard for people here to get by.   not to mention that i hang around alot of poor people,  90% of the country folk i know do not have a steady income and actually live off the land.

  As for the cordoba hills,  i know for a fact that they are not as tall as they are here in mendoza.   I have been to cordoba, (mina clavero, carlos paz, and a couple other cities) and the "mountains" there are more like hills.   check out the pics of the mountains that im talking about hunting on.

My horses
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/DSC04913.jpg)

Foot of the "precordilleras"
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/Picture010Large.jpg)

Hunting buddies
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/Picture019Large.jpg)  the guy with the green coat has been hunting since he was 12 years old with his family, has hunted all over argentina including cordoba, rio negro, neuquen, san luis, la pampa,  favorite prey wild boar & donkey LOL

This is some of the local wildlife my doggies catch, this is called a Huron kinda like a ferret or something
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/DSC03680Large.jpg)

This is a puma my neighbour hunted in Paredita, approx weight 90kl
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/DSC03692Large.jpg)

Me practicing bareback
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/DSC03851Large.jpg)
This is my friends outpost its 2 hours on horseback from where i live,  from there we go 4-5 hours behind those talls mountains you see behind the outpost, average height of those mountains 1100 meters tall.
 
Picture looking down at the city
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/Picture061Large.jpg)

i will try to find more pics
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 18 de Febrero de 2008, 14:03
PS.  notice in the picture that were on horseback,  check out the shiny stuff on the horses,  tahts sweat.   tahts only 1.5 hours up the mountain, still 30 mins away from the outpost.  the puna really fucks you up, those horses are well exercised and accustomed to doing those trips up there and still are sweating hardcore.  also its smack in the middle of winter (best time to catch puma here) and still getting pretty sweaty.   although i would love to see purebred dogos hunt here honestly my friend i just cant see it....  i would love for someone to prove me wrong though,  you should take a trip here and go hunting up there.
my house will be finished in the next couple months god willing and will be for rent to tourists. 
Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 18 de Febrero de 2008, 14:20
sorry for the multiple posts LOL but i keep finding new stuff to show u guys.

here we are still like 30-60 mins from the outpost, we just got tired and hungry so we stopped for a snack LOL, one of those stupid horses got away too and we had to chase it down before he found his path home,  thank god we were in a somewhat enclosed area.
http://s4.photobucket.com/albums/y132/noelle1024/?action=view&current=Picture054.flv


this is from the outpost but on a different day.   that alberto guy in the first video hunts wild boar all the time about 70km south of where we live in a place called paredita,  again they are hunting on a private ranch owned by some doctors and they use dogos, rifles and cuzcos.

Título: Re: Antares
Publicado por: choto en 22 de Febrero de 2008, 12:59
just wanted to clear something up,  that puma skin in that picture only weighed 55-60kl  i talked to my neighbour today and he told me the right weight.